Oppo, Teach Me Something New: C3 Vette Edition/ Also NPoCP

"K-Roll-PorscheTamer" (k-roll390) 06/07/2014 at 16:37 • Filed to: Corvette

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Question, help, and a short story inside. Oh and a deep dark car-related secret I've told no one ever, so if you know me, get ready for the shock; you'll know it when you read it..

Here's the deal and this may come as a shock to you, but before there was ONE car I wanted before the 911 when I was a small child, and that exact car is for sale right now. The car in question is a 1977 C3 Vette in red with a 4spd automatic, it looks like this red one above; and it's only 6 doors down the street from my house! The car has a bored out 350 motor, has been resprayed and has a brand new interior; sure it's got some small things that's gotta be taken care of but that can be said of many cars of this vintage, but this one's pristine and ready to drive!

But what's also special about this car is it's owner. He works for a company that's out of Germany and has visited the Porsche and Mercedes museums many many times; oh and he's also the owner of the SECOND 64 1/2 Mustang off the assembly line(the car is down south though so I haven't seen it); this guy is a car enthusiast unlike any I've ever met before. He's asking $7200 for it and has been trying to sell it for more than 5 years too.

So I would like to know a couple(a lot) of things about this car, and specifically the '77 Model Year. I'd like to know the history, specs, fun facts, features, owner or previous owner experiences, pros, cons, and everything and anything you can tell me about this and the other cars please!

Also I'd love to have this car someday, not now but one day; can someone explain to me how taking a loan works and credit score and whatnot perhaps?(Yes I am crazily thinking about what it'd be like to own this Vette, an ST and a 911 all at once, and it's glorious....)

He said I could come over some time and talk cars with him, but until then have this.....well, have this Corvette Limo?

Logansteno: Bought a VW? > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 06/07/2014 at 16:43

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They only had about 200 horsepower.

0-60 was 7.7 seconds

'77s had the steering column moved 2 inches closer to the dash over earlier models.

It was built in St. Louis!!

K-Roll-PorscheTamer > Logansteno: Bought a VW? 06/07/2014 at 16:46

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Cool Beans! Why do V8s of that vintage from both Ford and GM make such low HP numbers??

Logansteno: Bought a VW? > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 06/07/2014 at 16:47

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Choked up with emission equipment. Fuel crisis of the 70s did that to them.

K-Roll-PorscheTamer > Logansteno: Bought a VW? 06/07/2014 at 16:48

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Damn. How much do you think they'd be making without all that stuff?

Logansteno: Bought a VW? > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 06/07/2014 at 16:50

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Well, I'd assume about what the 350 made in 69, about 300 horsepower.

JayZAyEighty thinks C4+3=C7 > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 06/07/2014 at 16:51

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Longest running corvette. Let's talk about the later ones, which brought about the poor stereotype, first: In '76 power dropped to as low as 165 SAE net hp. Along with being offered solely with an automatic 'box for a number of years towards the end, they were incredibly strangled by emissions standards. Cross-fire injection was offered. '82 saw the "collector's edition" with pop-out rear glass. Luckily, people were ignorant enough to buy later ones to let the C4 develop into a 911-eating (relative) technological masterpiece with Bosch TPI, fully independent aluminum suspension, aluminum discs all around, supermodern interior, and much more. This car is what made the Corvette so popular among the elderly and gave it the midlife crisis stereotype — an old-fashioned car with flashy looks. However, I do like the swoopy styling. You can only imagine, though, in the world of 1982 with turbocharged DOHC motors and 5 speed manuals and digitized technology what this relic of 1968 was like. With that said, I love the early ones more. A 454 c.i. LS6 was a 500+ horse motor, making it an incredible car in the beginning. Styling was quite original and toned down from the C2, which was a refreshing change and went with the general styling trend of the time. They were still built on modified truck chassis, so they were more of straight line beasts like their predecessors. Good cars and don't deserve the hate IMO, and while they held back corvette innovation, they gave time for Chevrolet to develop a Corvette to sit atop the sports car world.

themanwithsauce - has as many vehicles as job titles > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 06/07/2014 at 16:54

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My grandpa had a 77 with the automatic very very briefly. I don't recommend it. I don't think it'll be what you want in a car, even if it's what you've wanted for a while. Unless it gets an engine transplant it will likely be slower than your FoST. Hell, my FiST will give it a run for its money.

This might be a good case of "Don't meet your heroes". It might've seemed like a superhero when you were rowing up but the actor behind it is a balding alcoholic with back problems. Save your time and money and get a C3 with a non-smogged 350 for about the same price and have a much better car.

K-Roll-PorscheTamer > Logansteno: Bought a VW? 06/07/2014 at 16:56

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I like that number better. Damn you emissions! This is when they started adding carburetors and catalytic converters correct? What did/do those things do?

PS9 > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 06/07/2014 at 16:58

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I was all prepared to hear about you having sex with your neighbor's cars for the past 20 years without them knowing it, and welcoming your weird ass to oppo all the same, but you had to have a boring normal deep dark secret like a garden variety non-sociopath.

K-Roll-PorscheTamer > JayZAyEighty thinks C4+3=C7 06/07/2014 at 16:59

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That is awesome! I love the swoopy stingray-like appearance; that's the reason I think it's the best looking Vette generation-wise. Now what do you think about the car I've been talking about? The price? Do you think it's worth it?, not that I'm interested in buying it right now.

Logansteno: Bought a VW? > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 06/07/2014 at 17:00

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Carburetors are just fuel delivery to the motor, like fuel injection. Don't really have anything to do with emissions.

Catalytic converters use some sort of method to make the gases coming out the tail pipe less dangerous. Less being relative of course.

That being said, none of this really made the cars any more fuel efficient, just less powerful.

StoneCold > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 06/07/2014 at 17:01

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"The car has a bored out 350 motor..."

If the engine has been pulled, chances are he pulled smog and that stuff. Isn't crazy hard to do from what I hear. Wouldn't hurt to ask!

watsebring > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 06/07/2014 at 17:03

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Safety was nonexistent and the body was made of paper.

K-Roll-PorscheTamer > themanwithsauce - has as many vehicles as job titles 06/07/2014 at 17:03

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Well given the emissions problems of the 70s, and the fact that my FoST killed a C4 Vette, I wouldn't expect it to be anywhere near as fast as my ST. I'd like to have one(one day) just because of what it is, as a simple American cruiser for weekend drives and whatnot; no drag races or anything of the sorts(maybe Auto-X for lols though. :P)

But it might be a case of "Don't meet your heroes", I've never even sat, rode in, touched, or driven a Corvette before so I don't have much of an experience with these cars.

K-Roll-PorscheTamer > Logansteno: Bought a VW? 06/07/2014 at 17:05

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Kinda like the thermal reactors they tried to use on 911s back in the 70s huh. :P

K-Roll-PorscheTamer > StoneCold 06/07/2014 at 17:06

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Maybe I'll ask sometime, I'd love to learn about this car.

Logansteno: Bought a VW? > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 06/07/2014 at 17:07

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I guess.

I'm not very 911 savvy. GM is more my forte.

K-Roll-PorscheTamer > PS9 06/07/2014 at 17:07

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Well for a kid that's said that he loves nothing but Porsche since birth basically talks about nothing else but, I figured that saying I wanted a Vette before a 911 would have someone saying "WTF??"

K-Roll-PorscheTamer > watsebring 06/07/2014 at 17:08

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Cool! I love classic death traps, what else can you tell me?

JayZAyEighty thinks C4+3=C7 > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 06/07/2014 at 17:11

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It's definitely a pretty car and sounds like it's been taken care of. Considering how long he's been trying to get rid of it, it'd be easy to negotiate on price. However, you might find the unergonomic and choked driving experience to put a damper on things. With a performance carb, compression bump, headers/exhaust, and cam the car will easily make big power (and you're still not even $10k into the car). However, I'd be a little weary of his need to sell it and the time it's spent on the market. I'd say, if it's in the condition we assume, it's worth it. Really comes down to whether you can deal with the driving position, general laziness of the car, etc. Keep in mind that you can get a really nice manual L89 C4 that will feel 20 years newer and faster for $2k less. The styling is more understated, but its drag coefficient of .34 and lower weight will make up for that. That's my $.02 on cheap 'Vtettes. Plus, 400 horses with a few kilobucks invested and awesome, simplistic 80s styling and innovation!

K-Roll-PorscheTamer > Logansteno: Bought a VW? 06/07/2014 at 17:18

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I shall educate you in the thermal reactor/thermal waste of time:

"In 1975, Porsche added a "thermal reactor" to meet US emissions standards."

"When applied to BMWs, the thermal reactor dropped mileage to the teens and cut power to the bone. When added to a Porsche, it did all of the above… but because it was cramped in the back of an air-cooled car, it also accelerated all of the 2.7L's problems. Hello there, first-year engine failure!"

To make this worse, the '74-77 cars had magnesium cases and:

"The thermal expansion properties of the head studs varied too much from that of the magnesium cases, causing them to loosen up. In time, Porsche worked with a manufacturer to develop Dilivar studs which have a closer thermal expansion rate to magnesium, reducing this problem substantially"

Logansteno: Bought a VW? > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 06/07/2014 at 17:20

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Oh wow. That sounds terrible.

Silly Germans.

K-Roll-PorscheTamer > JayZAyEighty thinks C4+3=C7 06/07/2014 at 17:21

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Cool! I'll consider it one day in the future. I'm assuming it was a project car and he said he'd like an El Camino next. I think the C4s look to boring and bland for my taste, I'd rather have a C5 if that were the case.

K-Roll-PorscheTamer > Logansteno: Bought a VW? 06/07/2014 at 17:24

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Luckily '74 cars don't have to deal with emissions regulations, but they still have the magnesium cases....Better to have one than both in this situation right?

Logansteno: Bought a VW? > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 06/07/2014 at 17:25

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Yessir.

themanwithsauce - has as many vehicles as job titles > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 06/07/2014 at 17:25

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In the words of Mr. Regular - "Corvette C2 - If a stratocaster was a car". If you want a corvette to meet and lust over, there you go. 1967 Corvette 427. Mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.......If you'll excuse me, I'll be in my bunk.

K-Roll-PorscheTamer > Logansteno: Bought a VW? 06/07/2014 at 17:31

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Luckily and smartedly(not a real word), they switched to all aluminium cases with the 3.0L SC in 1978, that car had it's own problems that could kill the motor, but it was much more reliable(subjective and so to speak) than a '74-77 car.

JayZAyEighty thinks C4+3=C7 > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 06/07/2014 at 17:33

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If it were a decision between a late C4 and C5, the C5 would be my decision every time (unless said late C4 was a ZR1/LT4). However, the '85-'89s had plenty of character (digital dash, subtle fender bulges, neat vents, E-type-inspired clamshell hood, 308-inspired black molding around the car, etc) where the other (albeit more) modern 'Vettes lack it and looked more or less like a C3 that was properly engineered and carved down. For me, function comes before form, and the C4's styling was designed to help improve function in a time where they were considered separate aspects. Does this guy's '64.5 hold his Chevrolet exploits against him? haha

K-Roll-PorscheTamer > themanwithsauce - has as many vehicles as job titles 06/07/2014 at 17:33

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Such sexyness....Also, go to the bathroom, not your bunk.

themanwithsauce - has as many vehicles as job titles > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 06/07/2014 at 17:35

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K-Roll-PorscheTamer > themanwithsauce - has as many vehicles as job titles 06/07/2014 at 17:39

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themanwithsauce - has as many vehicles as job titles > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 06/07/2014 at 17:44

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K-Roll-PorscheTamer > themanwithsauce - has as many vehicles as job titles 06/07/2014 at 17:53

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desertdog5051 > Logansteno: Bought a VW? 06/07/2014 at 18:15

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You are right. Taking it into more detail. Part of the new smog and fuel mileage standards (thanks, Carter) required changes and the automakers went with the easiest ways. Extremely lean conditions and hence, new cam profiles, timing and other adjustments. Automakers were pretty much guessing how to make it all work so they chose the most obvious avenues. Remember the Chrysler Lean Burn system that was a total nightmare? My son has a 76 Chrysler Cordoba and it is a nightmare to diagnose the often occurring problems. The old mechanics that knew how to deal with it are either gone or retired.

Flavien Vidal > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 06/07/2014 at 18:24

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Slow stock, but can be very easily brought up to 300hp or more... So not that slow afterall. Gas consumption is freaking bad though, especially with the automatics. I would recommend them if you plan on modifying them and give a bit more HP and torque. They are reliable and can be fun. Don't expect to kill it in autocross unless you do serious modification and put lots of $$$ in it... But then, it will be a BEAST.

Birddog > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 06/07/2014 at 18:49

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You're going to see a lot of comments on how slow it was or how poorly it handles.

It's true.

Compared to what we have grown accustomed to (300hp minivans) it's not a very good car.

In it's day though?

It was awesome. It was a Corvette.

Fun fact? A stock 1976 Dart Sport 360 outperformed it in a straight line.

It's a shame that most Jalops didn't get to live through the tail of the "Malaise Era".

CammedCTSV > JayZAyEighty thinks C4+3=C7 06/07/2014 at 19:19

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Where do you get your truck chassis from? Zora built the chassis from the Stingray and SS race cars. I dont know of any truck with IRS....

JayZAyEighty thinks C4+3=C7 > CammedCTSV 06/07/2014 at 19:21

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Damn, I thought they had carried over the C2's chassis for some reason. But if there's a 60s truck w/ IRS out there, my financial situation is in danger for sure.

CammedCTSV > JayZAyEighty thinks C4+3=C7 06/07/2014 at 19:31

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It is the C2 Chassis, which was IRS

JayZAyEighty thinks C4+3=C7 > CammedCTSV 06/07/2014 at 19:36

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Well what I've heard multiple times is that the C1/C2 corvette chassis was loosely based on a pickup chassis. If that's wrong, then I wouldn't be surprised, but I'd be a complete imbecile.

JawKnee > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 06/07/2014 at 20:17

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as the owner of a 77 vette I will tell you this don't ever worry about being fast. They are dogs with an auto, go cruising with the tops off and watch the looks you get!

shop-teacher > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 06/07/2014 at 22:59

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If the transmission is stock/original, its a 3 speed auto. Probably a turbo 350 trans, which are good units, and cheap to rebuild, just no overdrive.